in case you didn't know, i'm studying marriage and family therapy (mft) in a masters program for counseling psychology. in the state of california, things are a bit strange. for example, mfts don't necessarily work with couples, kids or families. in most other states, if you meet an mft, they probably have been trained to specifically work with this population and only this population. in california, licensed mfts (and social workers) who work as psychotherapists practice therapy in really broad and general terms unless one is competent with a specific population (competency = training + supervision + experience). all this to say, as of wednesday, april second, i'm leaning more toward working with couples. but, but, emily! how can you work with couples if you aren't a "couple"? ahh. very good question. where i would then respond by either turning the question back to you and asking how it would affect your hurting relationship (bc that is, afterall, the reason why you are in my office to see me, right?)* by seeing someone who you are assuming has no "relational" experience or, in the [paraphrased] words of one of the clintons, do you have to be black to help the black community? i think not.
so... the more i'm interested in couples therapy, the more i read articles and journals and become, ya know, an educational snob on a specific subject. but this article made me smile. it made me laugh. it made me frown (no, julie younger, not the intense frown). it made me mad. it made me jealous. it did a lot for me, clearly. i want to know what you think... yah, you, married friends, single friends, sociology friends (kristy!), single-for-life friends, dating-website friends, my-life-is-over-if-i-don't-get-married friends, and maybe you want to partake too, blog stalker?
here it is: it's called "marry him!", written by lori gottlieb.
*i wouldn't actually say that. ever.
Wednesday, April 2, 2008
marry him!
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7 comments:
Not going to lie - I thought that was the most depressing article I have ever read in my life. Is this woman married? Does her husband feel like shit?
First of all, she doesn't make a great argument for settling but, second of all, she makes a fantastic argument for redefining our definition of love.
For example:
"Marriage isn’t a passion-fest; it’s more like a partnership formed to run a very small, mundane, and often boring nonprofit business."
Well, news flash Lori, you can't have a small, mundane, and boring nonprofit with just anyone.
"What I long for in a marriage is that sense of having a partner in crime. Someone who knows your day-to-day trivia. Someone who both calls you on your bullshit and puts up with your quirks. So what if Will and Grace weren’t having sex with each other? How many long- married couples are having much sex anyway?"
News flash #2 - this sounds like a pretty great marriage to me. You can't have a partner in crime in someone you don't feel the need to share things with or open up to. And no one is going to call you on your bullshit if they don't get you.
Maybe Lori and I are working under a different definition of settling and, in my mind, settling says "meh, he'll do" and none of the above fit into that category. Finding a soulmate or falling in love isn't about having passionate sex 7 days a week and waking up every morning feeling like you just won a million dollars when you look at the person next to you in bed - not there aren't moments like that but they certainly aren't 100% of the time.
I don't think I can advocate settling but I do know that I can advocate adjusting our definition of love... more on that later.
from your single-for-life friend:
i dont have the patience to read this entire article but so far i mostly disagree. she's trying to make a generalization about every woman's desires for marriage and children and she is so horribly wrong. i'm not lying or in denial when i say i dont want to have children. believe me- i dont. i am doing society a favor. as far as marriage goes... my belief is that society is so wrapped up in marriage and so many people feel the need to conform. why can't we be single forever? why can't our best friends be our soul mates? if it were up to me i'd be single forever... but the truth of the matter is most of my friends will marry off and therefore i will have few single friends to enjoy the single life with. if it was more socially acceptable to be single at 35 (or 50)- i'd be single forever. being lonely for me is not about not having a man... it's about being seperated from my friends.
with that being said... i think this whole "settling" idea is absurd. she references the divorce rate and how it relates to people's perception of love... can you imagine how much more the divorce rate would increase if we settled? yes, people would be less lonely, but they'd be a hell of a lot more unhappy. we'd always be thinking about what could have been.
my belief is that women (and men too) should open their eyes and realize that marriage isn't everything it's cracked up to me. it takes work, it will be stressful, sometimes awful... but thats what you are committing to when you say i do. marriage should be more about marrying your best friend, and not your most amazing lover... because when it comes down to it love and friendship outlast sexual attraction.
i'm one who believes i never want to get married... but when it comes down to it i'll probably fall in love and decide to conform... mostly because my friends will be married and i will be bored. the whole "marriage" thing is a joke to me... a sort of american holiday. the ring, the wedding, the $20,000 party... but hey, it's america, what can you do.
bottom line: don't settle, just realize what you're getting into.
I agree with Shonna.
And add on to my previous post in stating that we need to
A) recognize that getting married is not the ultimate life goal
B) recognize that marriage is not the be-all, end-all, life problem solver
C) us the current divorce rate as a reason NOT to settle (you think all those people thought their marriage was going to last forever... I don't... they had doubts and they were settling)
D) Know that Shonna's right: "Don't settle, just realize what you're getting yourself into"
it's a strange article to me. i think what anna said is correct; the author doesn't make a good case for settling. she essentially tells women that we have our expectations set too high, and that we need to lower them and once we do we'll find the fat, bald, bland man that we never would have married in our 20s - but hey, he's better than nothing, right?
does anyone really think that it's better to come home to someone with whom you are not in love and not connected? maybe that's where i take issue with the author on the deepest level. it seems that she values simply having a warm body around, someone who can 'watch the kids for 20 minutes' while she eats lunch (as if that's really what a husband is good for). she wonders if you get a "cold shiver down your spine at the thought of embracing a certain guy, but you enjoy his company more than anyone else’s, is that settling or making an adult compromise?" it's neither. it's a bad idea. if the thought of touching someone makes your skin crawl, he is likely a bad candidate for marriage. perhaps, with lots of time and deep conversation, you find out that he is not who you thought him to be. then you move on in your relationship, perhaps.
i'm all for realistic expectations in relationships. but i don't think this means that we have to marry people who repulse us, just so that we can be married. i never thought i'd get married before 28 - and now i just might. but, i could just as easily not have met someone until i was 35; or never met someone. would that be heartbreaking? yes. will i always get what i want? no. creating a marriage without love is like forming a business that has nothing to offer. why do it? you don't have to make millions, or be listed in fortune 500, or create something new. you could run a car repair shop and just get by every day, but at least you would be purposeful.
I agree with most of the comments here, especially everything Laura just said. I also have to say that I can imagine feeling everything Lori, the author, is feeling being 40-something (did I catch that right?) and an unmarried single mom. I also have to be quite honest and vulnerable here and say that it's a shitty article to be reading after just getting out of a long-term relationship. Nevermind though, because I am full of hope and have many years to go until I might be faced with having to just pick some pragmatic, unattractive, and boring partner to run afore-mentioned non-profit with.
As the longest married woman to comment thus far (just about 5 years), I'd like to acknowledge a few things. First, the author of this article is a writer, not an MFT or other kind of marriage expert, and when we evaluate her thoughts from that perspective she has been exceedingly successful. Due to the controversial and eloquent ideas that she has presented, her article has been widely circulated in print and radio (I heard her on NPR a while ago). Congratulations to her for that - and to the rest of us, let's just settle down a bit.
If I know anything about marriage, it's that there's no wrong way to eat a Reese's. Meaning, of course, that there isn't a "right" way to go about it, and for all of the different individual personalities out there, there are different love stories. I got married when I was only TWENTY ONE, for crying out loud, and by most statistical analysis I was therefore predisposed to a failed marraige. 5 years later I remain happily married with no end in sight. My marriage story would not work for many women, just as theirs would not work for me.
i think that if a woman is comfortable finding a compatible partner and having babies with him to achieve some of her life goals, then God bless her. And if a woman simply cannot imagine committing to a man with whom she does not experience some occassional fireworks, then God bless her search for a passionate soulmate.
I feel incredibly fortunate to be sharing my life with a man with whom I am passionately in love with and with whom I am able to successfully run a household and life with. We both attribute much of the success of our marriage to the fact that our committment to each other doesn't stem from a 'feeling' or even a 'voice from God,' but from a choice to make that committment every day - without checking to see how the color of our grass compares to the color of any grass on the other side of the fence, so to speak.
In closing - Make your own damn choices according to your own damn priorities and boldly go forward in your own damn life.
amen, anna.
also: i'm interested in seeing how our perspectives have changed when we're all in our mid-thirties...
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